{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/q814m9371v/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["1413 - Chavka Folman – Raban \u0026 Judke Helman"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/610/original/aviary_default_logo.png?1724134410","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["1413 (IDEA Catalog No.)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Gouri Haim (Interviewer)","Chavka Folman – Raban (Interviewee)","Judke Helman (Interviewee)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1982-10-05"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eDocumentary Trilogy testimonies: Chavka Folman – Raban \u0026amp; Judke Helman.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFolman – Raban, a member of the Jewish Combat Organization (Zydowska Organizacja Bojowa) ZOB in the Warsaw ghetto – and her father’s attitude to the underground activities.\u003cbr\u003eHelman was an emissary of the Ha-Kibbutz ha-Me’uchad movement before the war and the last emissary to leave Poland – about the movement members and their attitude toward Eretz Israel; the importance of the emissaries; the emissaries leaving in September.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLength: 32:22 minutes. \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eContent:\u003cbr\u003eChavka Folman-Raban describes her transition from a Zionist home - where her father hoped she would pursue higher education - into the life of the commune and the HeHalutz (pioneer) movement. She focuses on the shift in power dynamics and the helplessness of the parental generation during the war, illustrated when she, as a 16-year-old girl, provided her father with the work permit that could save his life. Folman notes that despite her father's initial reservations, their home became a hub for underground activity where the poet Yitzhak Katzenelson taught. She emphasizes the vital importance of the underground seminars she attended, which were designed to preserve human dignity (Tzelem Adam) and train future leaders and commanders.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eJudke Helman, an emissary (Shaliach) of the Ha-Kibbutz ha-Me'uhad movement to Poland before the war and among the last to leave, elaborates on the deep connection between the pioneering youth movements in the Diaspora and Eretz Israel. This connection was expressed through education in kibbutz values, the study of the Hebrew language, and the moral and ideological authority of the emissaries from Israel.\u003cbr\u003eHe describes the crisis that unfolded when the emissaries left Poland at the outbreak of the war, explaining that the decision was made in coordination with the local movement leadership (the \"Aktiva\"), who believed there was nothing more for them to do there. Helman defends the emissaries against the criticism leveled at them for leaving. Additionally, he shares the later reflections of Zivia Lubetkin regarding the timing of the uprising, questioning whether the presence of emissaries with a \"catastrophic vision\" might have led to earlier preparations for an armed struggle against the Germans.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eThe Ghetto Fighters' House Museum produced three documentary films known as The Documentary Trilogy. The films are: The 81st Blow (1974), The Last Sea (1979), and Flames in the Ashes (1985). The creators were David Bergman, Jacquot Ehrlich, and Haim Gouri.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eMany recorded testimonies were integrated into the films. The raw materials of the testimonies are kept in the archive of the Ghetto Fighters' House Museum.\u003c/p\u003e (general)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["Testimonies","Films","Trilogy","Dror - Youth Movement","Seminars","He - Chaluts - Zionist pioneering organization","Ha - Kibbutz ha - Meuchad - Movement","Gordonia - Youth Movement","Ha - Shomer ha - Tsa'ir - Youth Movement","Conferences \u0026amp; Conventions","Emissaries, Zionist"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Warszawa"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["Hebrew"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["mp3"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Zuckerman Yitzhak","Katzenelson Itzhak","Perlis Yitzhak","Perlstein Leah","Lewite Lowa","Tabenkin Yitzhak","Rabinowicz Yoske","Gewelber Avraham","Zurawel Channa","Brenner Yosef - Haim","Trumpeldor Joseph","Remez David","Katznelson Berl","Szprincak Josef","Mersik Zwi, Bialystok","Tenenbaum - Tamaroff Mordechai"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributor"]},"value":{"en":["Ghetto Fighters' House Museum"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eDocumentary Trilogy testimonies: Chavka Folman \u0026ndash; Raban \u0026amp; Judke Helman.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr /\u003eFolman \u0026ndash; Raban, a member of the Jewish Combat Organization (Zydowska Organizacja Bojowa) ZOB in the Warsaw ghetto \u0026ndash; and her father\u0026rsquo;s attitude to the underground activities.\u003cbr /\u003eHelman was an emissary of the Ha-Kibbutz ha-Me\u0026rsquo;uchad movement before the war and the last emissary to leave Poland \u0026ndash; about the movement members and their attitude toward Eretz Israel; the importance of the emissaries; the emissaries leaving in September.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr /\u003eLength: 32:22 minutes.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eContent:\u003cbr /\u003eChavka Folman-Raban describes her transition from a Zionist home - where her father hoped she would pursue higher education - into the life of the commune and the HeHalutz (pioneer) movement. She focuses on the shift in power dynamics and the helplessness of the parental generation during the war, illustrated when she, as a 16-year-old girl, provided her father with the work permit that could save his life. Folman notes that despite her father's initial reservations, their home became a hub for underground activity where the poet Yitzhak Katzenelson taught. She emphasizes the vital importance of the underground seminars she attended, which were designed to preserve human dignity (Tzelem Adam) and train future leaders and commanders.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eJudke Helman, an emissary (Shaliach) of the Ha-Kibbutz ha-Me'uhad movement to Poland before the war and among the last to leave, elaborates on the deep connection between the pioneering youth movements in the Diaspora and Eretz Israel. This connection was expressed through education in kibbutz values, the study of the Hebrew language, and the moral and ideological authority of the emissaries from Israel.\u003cbr /\u003eHe describes the crisis that unfolded when the emissaries left Poland at the outbreak of the war, explaining that the decision was made in coordination with the local movement leadership (the \"Aktiva\"), who believed there was nothing more for them to do there. Helman defends the emissaries against the criticism leveled at them for leaving. Additionally, he shares the later reflections of Zivia Lubetkin regarding the timing of the uprising, questioning whether the presence of emissaries with a \"catastrophic vision\" might have led to earlier preparations for an armed struggle against the Germans.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eThe Ghetto Fighters' House Museum produced three documentary films known as The Documentary Trilogy. The films are: The 81st Blow (1974), The Last Sea (1979), and Flames in the Ashes (1985). The creators were David Bergman, Jacquot Ehrlich, and Haim Gouri.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eMany recorded testimonies were integrated into the films. The raw materials of the testimonies are kept in the archive of the Ghetto Fighters' House Museum.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Ghetto Fighters' House"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Ghetto Fighters' House"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/610/original/aviary_default_logo.png?1724134410","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collections/default_thumbs/000/002/950/small/Gemini_Generated_Image_nr5cx8nr5cx8nr5c.png?1769692460","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 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בוורשה","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=0.0,10.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"היו כאלה. אנחנו... אומנם הבית היה ציוני, אבל זה לא שמחר לוקחים את המיטלטליםן ונוסעים. אבא היה...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=10.0,20.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"רצה שהילדים יגמרו בית ספר, בית ספר גבוה. וכשאני התחלתי ללכת לתנועה קצת, אז הוא לא היה נלהב, החלוצים","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=20.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"זה לא היה בשבילו הדבר הכי... שהוא חלם בשבילי. ואני הייתי די מעורבת כבר,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=30.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"אני גרתי בדז'לנה 43, 43 הבית שלי, ודז'לנה 34, זה היה עולמי.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=40.0,50.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"אז אבא די היה ככה, לא פעם כעוס, אחר... אני עזבתי בכלל את הבית והלכתי לקומונה.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=50.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ובאו זמנים שמי שהיה לו פתקה משופ, שהוא עובד בשופ,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=60.0,70.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"שהוא עובד במקום של נקודת עבודה, זה היה נקרא...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=70.0,77.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מראיין: בית מלאכה. שופ.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=77.0,78.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"חווקה פולמן-רבן: כן, בבית מלאכה.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=78.0,80.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"אז זה היה איזשהו... תעודה שיכולה הייתה כאילו 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16,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=140.0,150.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"אני מביאה לו, מאלה, החלוצים, שהוא לא הכי אהב בעולם את ה... זה כאילו אני","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=150.0,160.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"הושפלתי במקומו, אתה 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אצלנו","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=167.0,170.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"עד מאוחר היה טלפון בבית המשפחתי. בדז'לנה לא היה טלפון. ואני זוכרת שיצחק","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=170.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"היה פעם הראשונה במחנה, שתפסו אותו הרי למחנה עבודה. אז כל ה... צריך היה 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יצאו","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=910.0,920.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"לתחנת הרכבת, על מנת להגיע לגבול הרומני, ומשם ארצה.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=920.0,926.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מראיין: וכך היה?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=926.0,927.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יודקה הלמן: וכך היה.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=927.0,928.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מראיין: אתה עוד נשארת יותר זמן?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=928.0,930.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יודקה הלמן: לא, אני כאחד מהמשלחת. אבל בדרך קרה דבר, וזה אשר הפנה אותי לאיזה פינה אחרת.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=930.0,940.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"עוד לא הספיקו לצאת את תחנת העיר ורשה, הופצצה הרכבת מההפצצות של הגרמנים. הרכבת","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=940.0,950.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"נעצרה, כל הנוסעים התפזרו והתחילו ללכת ברגל. וכאן אני נפרדתי, ולא אאריך את זה, נפרדתי מיתר השליחים,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=950.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"והמשכתי אני עם עוד שליח, נפרדתי ממנו. הם הלכו, הלכו והספיקו להגיע עד הגבול הרומני.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=960.0,970.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ביום שהם הגיעו לגבול הרומני נכנס הצבא הסובייטי ועצר אותם. אני כבר לא הייתי איתם. כאשר הצבא הסובייטי עצר אותם, משמר של הצבא","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=970.0,980.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"הסובייטי עצר אותם על יד הגבול, הכניס אותם למעצר בית בעיירה הזאת, עיירת הגבול, לקחו מהם את כל הדוקומנטים, פספורטים, שלחו את זה למוסקבה,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=980.0,990.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"לקבל רישיון יציאה. ובמשך כמה חודשים, חודשיים, הם ישבו בעיירה הזאת, חיכו לתשובה ממוסקבה,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=990.0,1000.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"לפספורטים שלהם, הדרכונים שלהם שלקחו. כאשר הגיע צו היציאה, רישיון היציאה, אז הם יצאו, בדצמבר הם","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1000.0,1010.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יצאו מפולין והגיעו ארצה.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1010.0,1013.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מראיין: בדצמבר?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1013.0,1013.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יודקה הלמן: אני לא הייתי איתם.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1013.0,1015.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מראיין: בדיעבד, אתה רואה את חשבון עולמך, 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הימים","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1025.0,1030.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ההם, לאור הסיטואציה שנוצרה בימים אלה, הנה ב-6 בספטמבר בערב המשלחת יוצאת לרכבת.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1030.0,1040.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"האקטיבה המקומית, יצחק, וכל... המקומית, יוצאים לחפור את החפירות להגנת העיר ורשה. בבוקר, כשהם חוזרים,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1040.0,1050.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"שודרה הקריאה של הגנרל הפולני, הקורא לכל יוצאי צבא לעזוב את העיר ורשה וללכת לצד מזרח. תאר","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1050.0,1060.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"לך, שידור רשמי, מצד המפקד של העיר ורשה קורא לכל יוצאי צבא לעזוב את העיר ורשה וללכת. תאר לך איזו פאניקה.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1060.0,1070.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"זה היה בבוקר. וכולם יוצאים. וכך האקטיבה המקומית, יצחק, ציביה וכל היתר הולכים, גם כן יוצאים איתם.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1070.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מראיין: טוב, נחזור לעניין המרד. מה שיחקה ארץ ישראל?... אתה אמרת שההגנה הייתה בעברית.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1080.0,1090.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יודקה הלמן: לא, הבט, למושג הזה \"מרד\" - הוא עוד רחוק. עם גרעינים של עמידה יהודית,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1090.0,1100.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"זו הייתה ההגנה, ההגנה היהודית. המרד זה תקופה יותר מאוחרת, עד שהגיעו, ואתה מכיר את כל ה...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1100.0,1109.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מראיין: טוב, אז","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1109.0,1110.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"איך היית קושר את ממד ארץ ישראל [?] הקיבוץ?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1110.0,1117.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יודקה הלמן: בהחלט. אני אומר לך, עצם","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1117.0,1120.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מעשה החינוך להגנה, אין חלוץ שלא יכול... עולה ארצה מוכרח גם להביא מההכשרה הצבאית, טרום צבאית,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1120.0,1130.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ועבר את הקורסים להכשרה טרום צבאית להגנה, לשורות ההגנה. הגנה נגד התעללות ביהודים, נגד פרעות ביהודים. הוא נתקל","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1130.0,1140.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"בזה, התבקש שמה שהגרמנים, עוד לא לפני השחיטה, לפני הרצח, לפני זה, שיהודים יערכו הגנה יהודית.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1140.0,1150.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"עכשיו, אז זה חלק מן הערך החינוכי של הארץ.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1150.0,1160.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"עכשיו, אני רוצה לומר לך, הם רצו לחנך את האדם לעמידה, לא רק הארץ. ודאי ראית את","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1160.0,1170.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"האנתולוגיה שהוציאו, \"ענות וגבורה\". מי היו הגיבורים? לחנך?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1170.0,1180.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"איש השומר, טרומפלדור, דמויות שהם קרובים. כמובן אפשר היה להרחיק. היו רבולוציונרים רוסיים,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1180.0,1190.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"גם אותם העלו, את הדמויות האלה. אבל הכי קרובים, את טרומפלדור הכירו מהתמונה, את ברנר הכירו מהתמונה, שהייתה תלויה במועדון","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1190.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"חדר האוכל של קיבוץ ההכשרה. הנה, אני השתתפתי בוועידת היסוד, בכנס היסוד של המחתרת החלוצית בשטח הסובייטי,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1200.0,1210.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ועמדה השאלה החינוכית לגבי התנועה, איזה ערכים, איזה יסודות חינוכיים לתנועה?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1210.0,1220.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"אז אחד האלמנטים שאמרנו, חינוך לאדם היהודי הגאה, זקוף 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[...]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1264.0,1265.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יודקה הלמן: ... המשבר שהיה שהלכה הסמכות המוסרית הגבוהה,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1265.0,1270.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ולא רק הסמכות המוסרית, הרעיונית, כי אם גם הסמכות הממשית. כל מבצע חינוכי 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בפנים?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1467.0,1470.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"אני מודה, אני איש שיצאתי להגנתם, להסביר את הסיטואציה, שלא היה להם כל מוצא, אני בפנים. הבט,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1470.0,1480.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"הם ישבו בעיירה, תרשה לי איזה נימה אישית בקשר עם זה. אני במקרה שאני לא איתם, לא הייתי איתם, במקרה שלא באתי 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לדעתך?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1855.0,1858.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יודקה הלמן: היו יותר מוכנים למרד. כוח","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1858.0,1860.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יותר גדול, נשק יותר רב. היה יכול להיות עיתוי אחר... לא היה כאשר היו חצי מיליון","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1860.0,1870.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יהודים נשארו בוורשה, אלא כאשר היו שלושה מיליון יהודים, אה, 500 אלף יהודים.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1870.0,1879.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מראיין: כשלא היו 50 אלף יהודים.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1879.0,1880.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יודקה הלמן: 50 אלף יהודים.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1880.0,1881.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מראיין: אלא 500. תחזור על המשפט הזה.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1881.0,1884.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יודקה הלמן: היא אמרה, אילו... ייתכן שהמרד היה פורץ לא כאשר נשארו 50 אלף יהודים בגטו ורשה,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1884.0,1890.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"אלא היה לך 500.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1890.0,1894.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מראיין: 500 אלף.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1894.0,1895.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יודקה הלמן: 500 אלף.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1895.0,1897.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"מראיין: טוב, זה קצת...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1897.0,1900.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"יודקה הלמן: אתה מבין, אנטק היה לו, לא, אני לא יכול לומר שהיה ויכוח שהיה בניגוד, לא, הוא אישר את הדברים.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1900.0,1910.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"אבל הוא לא היה בטוח אם אפילו היו יכולים להקדים, לא בטוח. זה כנראה שהיה צריך לעבור","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1910.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"איזה שלבים של בישול, של התפתחות, של עיכול. ונכון, המרד הלא לא יכול לקום, פתאום אנחנו מחליטים, אנחנו יוצאים למרד.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1920.0,1930.0"},{"id":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468/transcript/93248/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"בזה, אני לא אומר שאלה הם דבריו, אבל הוא מוביל לנקודה הזאת. אתן לך את הפרוטוקול הזה.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://gfhorgil.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2950/collection_resources/134415/file/249468#t=1930.0,1942.67429"}]}]}]}